In this investigation, Dr. Green examined under strict conditions, with multiple witnesses, Rama's ability to control numerous bodily functions, up until that time thought utterly uncontrollable by voluntary means.
Further, he then clearly demonstrated in repeated tests, among other things, his ability to move objects from which he was separated by a wall and sealed glass window in a separate room. He was able to tell the observers researchers which direction and to what specific degree of angle the metal rods, in one case, would move.
Any method of trickery in these investigations were eliminated completely, as well as measuring with present equipment all of the changes in body function accompanying such feats.
The details of this investigation can be read about in a
variety of public sources including
"Beyond Biofeedback, by Elmer and Alyce Green"
and
"Walking with a Himalayan Master : An American's Odyssey" /
Justin O'Brien. Author O'Brien, Justin, 1932- Publisher St.
Paul, Minn. : Yes International Publishers, 1998.
Dr. Green also investigated another individual with remarkable "supernatural" powers of healing, Jack Schwarz of the Netherlands. Schwarz learned of his unusual abilities after his internment at Nazi concentration camps. At Greens request, he demonstrated nearly instantaneous healing of wounds and burns, without pain. For example, both a lit cigarette burn would heal or a large puncture wound would close completely at his voluntary suggestion on command. Schwarz wrote a number of books including "Human Energy Systems" and "Voluntary Controls". I will add that I once had the pleasure of personal contact with this gentleman.
[As to the above examples, these were recently mentioned to James Randi in a series of personal emails to him, which revealed some other interesting things about his personality and direct communications. I wrote to him mentioning that I was not able to respond to posts at this very bulletin board to which he sent this reply (note, he does not address my #1 question, will I be allowed to post soon. Please note, Randi himself is listed as MODERATOR of the forum. This is his response:
NEIL: "Neil, it's "site", not "sight".
Those stunts are standard carnival stunts from medieval days, No scientist is going to solve them, any more than a magician is going to invent an enzyme. I never cease to wonder at the naivety of scientists, who think that because they're well-educated, they can't be fooled. We've offered our prize for cloudbusting. We've tested a dozen people. All failed. If you can do it, come collect the prize. Randi" Randi offers me the chance to prove cloudbusting above. I then wrote back, AGAIN asking if I would be allowed to post some time soon, or if I was banned, or what: NEIL: "Dear Randi,
I wonder if you've examined the records of telekenetic testing done of Swami Rama at the Meninger Foundation many years back. How he caused the movement of objects in a separate room, separated by a glass window would be a pretty good carnival trick, and a damn great fooling of that group of observers.
Anyway, Thanks for the personal reply-- I have about 4500 total email list members myself, and so I know the time it takes to answer emails promptly.
Never the less- I'm still getting this when I attempt to post, as of a few minutes ago: "Sorry, you do not currently have permission to post messages in this forum."
As for cloudbusting, I recall seeing the your group specifically would not test for this particular phenomenon. I have no argument for you setting your own rules for or against particular demonstrations. I may be mistaken.
Concerning whether or not this is a real manefestation of human effort- causing deliberate dissapation of chosen clouds, it is a difficult thing to prove, as mentioned, they change on their own anyway. What is interesting, is that one apparently can choose a cloud, in a bank or formation of clouds, and watch the targeted item vanish, leaving others in the vacinity stable and intact. As mentioned, it is about as dependable as completing passes at the Super Bowl. It can be done, but its not guaranteed.
If thoughts and projected imagery is responsible, the disbelief and skeptical thoughts and projected imagery would have as strong a counter effect. Further, in the same way that one small drop of ink can cloud an entire glass of water- one bad apple spoils the bunch. One negatively minded observer can ruin the whole party.
So, yes, hard if not impossible to prove among skeptics.
Never the less, I have received literally thousands of comments from independent persons with nothing to gain from such an observation, who, despite their own disbelief that they could have any such results-- report success, repeatedly. Perhaps the phenomenon is just knowing which cloud is going to vanish in a group, or knowing what cloud will suddenly manefest a hole in the middle of it.
Anyway, would still love to post--
Thanks
Neil"
Randi replied:
RANDI: ">As for cloudbusting, I recall seeing the your group specifically would not test for this particular phenomenon.<<P> Not any more. It's just such a silly notion, that we can't waste time of it any more. We also don't test for Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Our tersts were simple: we asked the "buster" to tell us which cloud he'd bust, then we videotaped the sky with a wide-angle camera. When the tape was played for anyone else, they could not determine which cloud was "busted," because they all went away, in varying sequences. There was nothing special about the chosen cloud. The error is in watching ONLY the cloud that was chosen, and not noticing that others go away at the same rate.
As for Swami Rama, that was not a scientific test. No one took it seriously., And it was not the Menninger Clinic. It was people at the Menninger Clinic. Big difference. If I step inside the Perntagon and someone sees me do a magic trick, I can say I performed at the Pentagon....
Randi"
Apparently, Randi's sarcasm is quite obvious in his first answer now stating that Cloudbusting will NOT be tested. When is the guy to be believed?
As to Rama, and "the people at the Menniger Clinic" -well I don't think the instruments themselves would be doing the testing without humans in attendance. Concerning the "people", it was one of the FOUNDERS of the Clinic. As to "that was not a scientific test. No one took it seriously." This are two totally false statements, see both books above as well as some people who have used the investigations in their own work-and I dare say they are more qualified and experienced than anyone on this site:
Accepting Your Power To Heal by Dolores Krieger, Ph.D. (Bear & Company, SantaFe, MN, 1993)
The Anatomy of Spirit by Caroline Myss, M.A. (Random House, 1996)
Beyond Biofeedback by Elmer and Alyce Green (Knoll publishing Company,Inc., 1989)
The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life by Robert O. Becker, M.D. andGary Selden (Quill, William Morrow, NewYork, NY, 1985)
The Body of Light: History and Practical Techniques for AwakeningYour Subtle Body by John Mann and Lar Short (Globe Press, Yorktown,NY, 1990)
Bridging Science and Spirit: Common Elements In David Bohm's Physics,The Perennial Philosophy and Seth by Norman Friedman (Living Lake Books, St.Louis, MO, 1994)
The Creation of Health: Merging Traditional Medicine with IntuitiveDiagnosis by C. Norman Shealy, M.D., Ph.D.and Caroline M. Myss, M.A. (Stillpoint Publishing, 1993)
Cross Currents: The Perils of Electropollution, The Promise of Electromedicine by Robert O. Becker, M.D. (Jeremy P. Tarcher/Perigee,Los Angeles, CA, 1990)
A Different Kind of Healing: Why Mainstream Doctors Are EmbracingAlternative Medicine by Oscar Janiger, M.D., andPhilip Goldberg (Jeremy P. Tarcher, New York,NY, 1993)
A Doctors Guide to Therapeutic Touch by Susan Wagner, M.D. (Berkeley Publishing, 1996)
Energetic Healing: The Merging of Ancient and Modern Medical Practices by James Eden, M.D. (Insight Books, Plenum Press,New York and London, 1993)
Energy Fields in Medicine: A Study of Device Technology Based onAcupuncture Meridians and Chi Energy by The John E. Fetzer Foundation (The John E. Fetzer Foundation,Kalamazoo, MI, 1995)
Energy Medicine Around the World Edited by T. M. Srinivasan,Ph.D. (Gabriel Press, Phoenix,AZ, 1988)
The Energy Within: The Science Behind Eastern Healing Techniques by Richard M. Chin, M.D., O.M.D. (Marlowe & Company,New York, NY, 1995)
The Future of the Body: Explorations Into the Further Evolution ofHuman Nature by Michael Murphy, Co-Founder,Esalen Institute (Jeremy P. Tarcher/Putnam Book,New York, NY, 1992)
Hands of Light by Barbara Brennan, M.S. (Bantam Doubleday Dell PublishingGroup, Ind., New York NY, 1993)
The Healer Within: The New Medicine of Mind and Body by Steven Locke, M.D., and DouglasColligan (Mentor, Penguin Books Canada Limited,Markham, Ontario, 1986)
Healing Research: Holistic Energy Medicine and Spirituality, Volumes1 - 4 by Daniel J. Benor, M.D. (Helix, 1994)
Healing and The Mind by Bill Moyers (Bantam Doubleday Dell PublishingGroup, Ind., New York NY, 1993)
Health and Healing by Andrew Weil, M.D. (Houghton Mifflin Company,Boston, MA, 1988)
Health and Light: The Extraordinary Study that Shows How Light AffectsYour Health and Emotional Well-Being by John N. Ott (Ariel Press, Columbus,OH, 1976)
The Heart of Healing with Brendon O'Regan and WilliamPoole (IONS, 475 Gate 5 Rd., Suite300, Sausalito, CA 94965, 1993)
The Interrelationship Between Mind and Matter: Proceedings of a ConferenceHosted by the Center for Frontier Sciences by Beverly Rubik (The Center for FrontierSciences Temple University, Philadelphia, PA, 1989)
Mind Matters: Psychological Medicine in Holistic Practice by J. R. Millenson, Ph.D., M.R.H. (Eastland Press, Seattle,WA, 1995)
Mystics, Magicians, and Medicine People: Tales of a Wanderer by Doug Boyd (Paragon House, New York,NY, 1989)
A New Science of Life: The Hypothesis of Formative Causation by Rupert Sheldrake (Jeremy P. Tarcher, Inc.,Los Angels, CA, 1981)
Perfect Health: The Complete Mind/Body Guide by Deepak Chopra, M.D. (Harmony Books, New York,NY, 1990)
Planet Medicine: Origins by Richard Grossinger (North Atlantic Books, Berkeley,CA, 1995)
Planet Medicine: Modalities by Richard Grossinger (North Atlantic Books, Berkeley,CA, 1995)
Quantum Healing: Exploring the Frontiers of Mind/Body Medicine by Deepak Chopra, M.D. (Bantam Books, 1989)
Reiki & Medicine by Nancy Eos, M.D. (White Feather Press, Laytonville,CA, 1994)
Reiki Energy Medicine by Libby Barnett and MaggieChambers (Healing Arts Press, Rochester,VT, 1996)
Subtle Energy: Awakening to the Unseen Forces in Our Lives by William Collinge (Warner Books, New York, 1988)
The 'Reiki' Factor by Barbara Ray, Ph.D. (Radiance Associates, St.Petersburg, FL, 1988)
Therapeutic Touch: Using Your Power to Heal by Dolores Krieger, Ph.D. (Bear & Company, SantaFe, NM, 1992)
Therapeutic Touch Inner Workbook by Dolores Krieger, Ph.D. (Bear & Company, SantaFe, NM, 1996)
The Uncommon Touch: An Investigation of Spiritual Healing by Tom Harpur (McClelland & StewartInc., Toronto, Ontario, 1994)
Vibrational Medicine: New Choices for Healing Ourselves by Richard Gerber, M.D. (Bear & Company, SantaFe, NM, 1988)
Vision of Rogers' Science Based Nursing by Elizabeth Ann Manhart Barrett,Ph.D. (ISBN 0887374476)
The Way of Qigong: The Art and Science of Chinese Energy Healing by Kenneth S. Cohen (Ballentine Books, willbe out in April of 1997)
Whole Healing: A Step-By-Step Program to Reclaim Your Power to Heal by Elliott S. Dacher, M.D. (Dutton, Penguin Books,New York, NY, 1996)
And if you like, you can still call the Menninger Foundation who STILL knows exactly who when and where these investigations took place and will refer you to further information and follow up. Sounds serious enough to me.
I responded again:
NEIL: "Now Randi, Do you mean what you say--- or do you say what you mean? Or do you just say mean things?
>"We've offered our prize for cloudbusting. We've tested a dozen people. >All failed.
> > If you can do it, come collect the prize."
Then-
">Not any more. It's just such a silly notion, that we can't waste time of it > any more. "
As for Menninger,
Turns out I live about 20 minutes from Dr. Elmer Green, who performed the investigation with Swami Rama, Jack Schwartz and others. I'll get the scoop directly from him. From my preliminary reading of the tests, it looks well documented and respectable.
Despite what is apparently your cynicism, which you are entitled, plenty of people took it very seriously. and continue to work in this field of subtle energies, which is reported by a large number of qualified professionals in the field of medicine. See a very few references below.
I have no objection to any magic tricks you do in the Pentagon. How this is relevant to the credentials of Dr. Green, I fail to see.
As for my own tests of cloudbusting, I videotaped my attempts, and the results are obvious, and not at all vague as you are reporting in your own experience. No practicing, no trials- point and shoot the camera-- clouds I aimed at, poof. Other clouds in the vicinity-- no change. Repeated. That's my observation.
Again, there may be as strong an effect by skeptical projections as otherwise. This is different than Santa Claus, whom, by the way, I see all over town starting around Thanksgiving.
I just heard back from Lawrence Blair, they decided "shocking" the Amazing Randi would be too much fuel for polarizing the forces of disbelief. Damn-- it would have been a great show.
BTW, its not "Perntagon" , its Pentagon.
Thanks,
Neil"
"Perntagon" responds to his very first comment about my use of the word "sight" as opposed to "site" in referring to web information. I thought this was rather juvenile jab of little consequence except to demonstrate his superior intellect and correct grammar right off the bat Nevertheless, He gave me my own opportunities when he made three obvious spelling errors of his own in consequent emails. !
I again emailed him about not being able to be given a fair chance to respond to the negative posts on the board, and if it would be forthcoming. It seemed that negative personal comments was something that deserved at least one sentence of recognition. Instead of simply saying "that's someone else's job" or "I don't know" or "They're gone till Monday" (which was the case) or "hang in there" I get a dismissing:
RANDI: "Neiul, I have some 80 to 100 messages a day to answer. Yours is not critical, in my opinion. It will be handled eventually."
I respond:
NEIL: Cynicism - A+ Web Support- F
Note, I have 4500 members on my own boards and answer every email directly and politely. I actually READ what people are asking and reply accordingly without insult.
Anyway James Randi, scientist, heavy thinker, keen observer writes back:
RANDI: "Get a life...."
Nice guy.
Okay. I suppose lovers of James Randi and company will rationalize all of the above and find it totally acceptable. I do not. But, can't argue with an ardvaark they say......
Onward
Another personal contact I have is with documentary film-maker Lawrence Blair. Originally from the UK, he now makes his permanent home in Boulder, Colorado and has a first rate reputation for delivering facts without embellishment. He is well known around the world for his exceedingly well researched films, including his four part documentary on his ten year exploration of Indonesia, "Ring of Fire" .
In this particular series, one segment is devoted to a physician on the Island of Bali, who remarkably has the ability to generate sufficient energy to set newspaper on fire without touching it (or obviously using matches!), but merely concentrating on it. He further has the ability to light electric bulbs by merely holding them in his hand, cause water to flow out of a glass, and other paranormal abilities. Known as "Dynamo Jack", the doctor simply makes his living not as a trickster or by demonstrating such feats, but by doing acupuncture and medicine. Another use of his mental powers is to create electricity from within his own body, and apply this in his medical practice to the acupunture needles (as regular electric current is used by more typical acupuncturists). This electrical current has been measured directly in the hundreds of volts. All of the other feats are the subject of Blair's soon to be released documentary of which the doctor is the focus. Speaking to Blair on the phone a couple of months ago, he assured me that every aspect of Jack's abilities were tested to the nth degree by extremely rigorous testing by scientists and researchs experienced in this field and that absolutely any slight of hand or illusion was impossible.
You may view the original excerpt in "Ring of Fire" on video cassette by Lawrence and Lorne Blair here:
and read my own comments here: Fire Brain-Man
Although it would be possible to fake such a demonstration, and of course no video alone is conclusive evidence, Lawrence has personally assured me the lengths to which he has gone to eliminate any possibility of fraud in many of the demonstrations of Jack. As to trying for "The Million", Jack is sufficiently worn out with the rigorous testing made by Blair's group of investigators. Blair states "Thanks for that, Neil. I've already contacted the Amazing Randi, who DJ was eager to confront until he realized how flattening him with a shock in public would over-polarize the forces of disbelief. Great as the film would be, in the long run he's probably made the right decision." Myself, not too terribly impressed with Randi's manners and my experience at this board alone, can understand why further confrontation can serve little purpose. I trust Blair's observations and testing every bit as much as I would trust J.R. and his group. How many times do you have to prove something is real?
PS-- the UFO story at http://www.NeilSlade.com/UFOs.html is absolutely authentic and completely unexplainable. Gathering from the number of sarcastic remarks on JREF about UFOs, I would imagine that the average consensus is that UFOs are nonsense and imaginary. My web page says otherwise. Whether they are "alien", from another dimension, terrestrial or extraterrestrial origin-- beats me. Among the witnesses is a cop, and airline hostess, kids, a housewife, and about 45 other people, many people including two of my best friends who was within 30 feet of the thing.
I personally have the photos and videos, but what is most impressive is the sincere, non-deluded, intelligent observations of people I know and have met.
Just an interesting diversion about another thing many people would say is bunk and "can't be proved".
END OF PART ONE Return to the Library From Another Dimension.
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